Jisho.org Forum

I think maybe you meant my recommendation to another member to get a DS instead of a book dictionary.

The DS is indeed a great resource for studying. A few notes:

- A DS Lite is about $130 and the software are each about $40, much cheaper than most denshi jishos. Import software can be acquired online at ebay or my personal favorite, ncsx.com. I live in Japan and dont need them anymore but theyre fast and cheap, and more reliable than play-asia.com.
- Kanji Sonomama Rakubiki Jiten is an excellent dictionary that gives definitions in English with example sentences for nearly every entry (the more obscure words may only have a definition in Japanese).
- With the stylus, you`re able to write in a kanji you`ve never seen before and the definition pops up immediately. Definitely more efficient than hunting for radicals, plus the Rakubiki Jiten`s recognition ability is pretty amazing (this varies based on the program...Kanken DS is very anal about stroke order, so your 人 may look like the real deal, but if it isnt two strokes, you`re wrong).
- In addition to the dictionary, there are many softs available to train your Japanese (mostly kanji).
- The DS can also be used, of course, to play games.
- DS` are region-free, meaning an American system will play Japanese software without any modifications required.

Some cons:
- Every software for study is made for Japanese and may be too hard for beginners. The Rakubiki Jiten is still excellent as long as you can write hiragana, but the kanji softs like Kanken DS or games like Kanji no Wataridori are pretty tough.
- High-end denshi jishos still have more content than Rakubiki Jiten (although they cost much more).
- The only Japanese study soft I know of that was made for native English speakers is the horrendous My Japanese Coach. This thing is awful for anyone serious about studying but I suppose will be fine if you just want to sample the language.

Denshi jisho vary wildly in price in Japan, even ones of similar quality, or even the same brand. I bought my first one in a department store for 1man or about $100 (admittedly this was in 2004) and my second one a couple of years ago in Akihabara for around $150-200 (I don't remember exactly). Quality J-J and J-E/E-J dictionaries, but no stylus input.

Tbh I don't really use my denshi jisho all that much now as I usually have access to the internet and so I use Yahoo!, or this very site for finding kanji by radical if I can't remember any of the different yomikata.

Having said that, I have thought about getting a DS though. I don't know much about them, though. Is the software really that good? I suppose if it's aimed for the Japanese market there must be some high-level study to be done. Would you recommend Kanji no Wataridori in particular?

If youre aiming for high-level study theres a number of programs to choose from. The Kanken DS series should be a stiff challenge to anyone learning the language although I dont think they cover the absurd 6000+ kanji for 1級 (I`ve only played the first one, maybe they changed this for 2 and 3).

Theres one called Otana no Kanji (or something along those lines) that comes recommended from a friend and one with Mannin in the title that is not so good.

Keep in mind that these are all pretty dry programs and dont have the flash of a Castlevania or Final Fantasy game, except for Kanji no Wataridori which unfortunately kind of sucks. I bought it becase it has art by a guy who designed one of my favorites games, DoDonPachi Dai Ou Jou, plus its about kanji so how can you lose, but its just too hard for me. I know the readings and meanings of a good 1700+ kanji and this game took me for a ride. Granted, its been a year since I last played and I`ve since crammed more kanji into my head, so maybe now its doable but its not for the faint of heart. Its also just not that fun (kind of a QTE `quick time event` thing).

Kanken DS games do have mini-games but theyre not so involved.

Theres a series of games called Mojippitan that are available on pretty much every game system and they test vocab. Pretty decent.

Also of note is a DS game that I cant recall the name of but it helps you improve your handwriting.

Hi julianjalepeno, thanks much for all that info, very helpful. Sounds like it might well be the way to go. I can't justify spending loads, but given that my WordTank is at least 22 years old, it is probably time to upgrade. The idea of kanji games hadn't even crossed my mind, but I'll look into your suggestions!

You shouldn't buy a DS just to replace your wordtank, even if the kanji sono mama software is VERY good (the only thing missing IMO is a jump function).

You should buy the DS because it's one of the best gaming platforms there is, definitely the best portable one. The JP learning softwares and the massive amount of Japanese games is just a big bonus.

just get an i touch there are so many good jishos

I got a DS yesterday plus Kanken DS3. Not sure whether I'm going to concentrate mainly on yomikata, or on trying to get my kanji writing up to speed too. The recognition software doesn't seem to be very good at recognising characters input with the wrong stroke order, so it'll probably depend how much work it is to learn proper stroke orders (which hasn't been high priority for me at any stage).

The Kanji Sonomama Rakubiki Jiten software I got for the DS light has a jump function, but I'd say it's only useful about 50% of the time.

As I've gotten better at Japanese, the software has become more useful. The weakest point I'd say is using the stylus for hiragana / katakana.\
Maybe my handwriting just sucks, but it has a hard time determining る and ろ, and ら and う。 If I use a stroke order opposite of what i read in a book... it works haha. ん is
often mistaken too. There's a keyboard-ish software input function too, but that kind of sucks. Not easy to master.

Once you get good at Kanji you won't need to do that so much any more anyway though. My old denshi jisho had some pretty crusty and out of context definitions with
no useful example sentences. I've found abou 92% of the Sonomama Jiten definitions to be correct on the English side. The example sentences offer good general ideas of context.
It is of course a huge amount of software compiled by humans so there are bound to be mistakes. Also once its burned into cartridge it becomes harder to release something like a software patch for it.

Once you can read the kokugo part, it becomes really interesting. They have explanations of old Kanji and a lot of words that are not common but still come up in books and newspapers.
There's also stuff that explains anomalies like 灯油 being read とうゆ　and not ちょうゆ or ていゆ . Originally the character was 燈油 which has 豆 in it so it would follow that the on'yomi is とう, and not　ちょう　or てい as I would be inclined to guess by seeing the 丁 part in 灯. That may be more nerdy than most people care about though hahaha I'm a fan of it though :-D

I haven't even bothered to buy a new denshi jisho after my old one broke since the DS one has become more and more useful. I got it as a beginner and it's still helping me every day nearly 3 years later. The English words can be read aloud by a woman's voice recording. I've even used that to help Japanese friends with their English pronunciation (I have a pretty low voice so it's a good contrast). I probably would've given up if not for that thing haha. w00t 任天堂 Man if I was here trying to study Japanese in the 70s, I would've died by now lol.

Posted By: paulusmaximus

[p]The Kanji Sonomama Rakubiki Jiten software I got for the DS light has a jump function, but I'd say it's only useful about 50% of the time.[/p][p]As I've gotten better at Japanese, the software has become more useful. The weakest point I'd say is using the stylus for hiragana / katakana.\

Maybe my handwriting just sucks, but it has a hard time determining る and ろ, and ら and う。 If I use a stroke order opposite of what i read in a book... it works haha. ん is
often mistaken too. There's a keyboard-ish software input function too, but that kind of sucks. Not easy to master.[/p][p]Once you get good at Kanji you won't need to do that so much any more anyway though. My old denshi jisho had some pretty crusty and out of context definitions with
no useful example sentences. I've found abou 92% of the Sonomama Jiten definitions to be correct on the English side. The example sentences offer good general ideas of context.
It is of course a huge amount of software compiled by humans so there are bound to be mistakes. Also once its burned into cartridge it becomes harder to release something like a software patch for it.[/p][p]Once you can read the kokugo part, it becomes really interesting. They have explanations of old Kanji and a lot of words that are not common but still come up in books and newspapers.
There's also stuff that explains anomalies like 灯油 being read とうゆ　and not ちょうゆ or ていゆ . Originally the character was 燈油 which has 豆 in it so it would follow that the on'yomi is とう, and not　ちょう　or てい as I would be inclined to guess by seeing the 丁 part in 灯. That may be more nerdy than most people care about though hahaha I'm a fan of it though :-D[/p][p]I haven't even bothered to buy a new denshi jisho after my old one broke since the DS one has become more and more useful. I got it as a beginner and it's still helping me every day nearly 3 years later. The English words can be read aloud by a woman's voice recording. I've even used that to help Japanese friends with their English pronunciation (I have a pretty low voice so it's a good contrast). I probably would've given up if not for that thing haha. w00t 任天堂 Man if I was here trying to study Japanese in the 70s, I would've died by now lol.[/p]

Posted By: santouryuu3

[p]just get an i touch there are so many good jishos[/p]

I don't know about koujien, but kenkyuusha shineiwa daijiten (green godess) is available, it's quite pricey though. Daijirin is also available for a price.

Thanks. I'll probably hold off for the time being.

Posted By: louis

[p]Do you just close your DS and leave on standby? It seems like constantly having to boot up the DS would be bothersome.[/p]