• While digging through my 広辞苑付録 I encountered 外来語の表記. The problem is that 表記 is confusing me. 表 is normally something like a chart, list, table or the like. However most of the translations for 表記 state things like:

    • an inscription on the face
    • mentioned on the outside
    • title
    • declare
    • publish (info)


    I've seen it translated somewhere as "list of loanwords", but the text is not a list as I see it. The best I could describe it myself would be as 'guidelines on/to loanwords'. Opinions?
  • I don't think it's something to be very confused about, it's not always that compounds are made with the original meanings in mind, even if this one might seem like it.

    Compare it to 表着, meaning coat or jacket. It's pretty hard to think of that as "list of clothes" or "diagram of clothes". What I think of when I see 表 is actually "display" from the word 表示, which seems to work great in both the meaning of jacket AND the meaning you said.

    Not saying this is how the japanese thought when the word was "created", but it makes a bit more sense.
  • Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. I was not confused that 表記 would lose the meaning of 表 in the compound, but rather that when looking at the entire word/construction of 外来語の表記 I couldn't most of 表記's meanings into the translation, short of 'publish (info)'. That's only why I came out with 'guidelines on loanwords', since the 'list of loanwords' that someone else came up with on the net wasn't adequate in my opinion. I guess I was mostly wondering if I didn't miss something incredibly simplistic. :)
  • From the list of sentences on the site:

    http://jisho.org/sentences?jap=表記

    I think 'hyouki' is writing system here, so I would translate the whole phrase as 'how to write loan words'.
  • Posted By: asmodai
    [p]Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. I was not confused that 表記 would lose the meaning of 表 in the compound, but rather that when looking at the entire word/construction of 外来語の表記 I couldn't most of 表記's meanings into the translation, short of 'publish (info)'. That's only why I came out with 'guidelines on loanwords', since the 'list of loanwords' that someone else came up with on the net wasn't adequate in my opinion. I guess I was mostly wondering if I didn't miss something incredibly simplistic. :)[/p][span class=CommentSignature]Yes, I am a bluntly honest type.[/span]


    Ah I see, I misunderstood your question then. The last of the sentences Richard posted shows hyouki as meaning expression, maybe it could be "Expression of Loanwords". Since I haven't seen this text you're referring to, it's hard to say. Is it some form of general text on loanwords? Or is it like Richard suggests, a form of "tutorial" on how loanwords work in the japanese language?
  • It seems to be a supplement to the Kojien dictionary. Probably the wording comes from back when katakana was very new, and people who knew loan words generally knew them better in the original foreign language, and they wanted to know how to write them in Japanese. Well, that's my guess, anyway.
  • Actually, the Kojien supplement merely reproduces this 1991 government text of the same name.
  • Posted By: Richard
    [p]I think 'hyouki' is writing system here, so I would translate the whole phrase as 'how to write loan words'.[/p]

    D'oh. That actually works, yes. I should've checked the sentences.

    Thanks.
  • I know I'm jumping into this thread a little late, but anyway, here's my two cents.

    My dictionary gives this example (the parentheses are my own, just for clarity's sake):
    単語の発音を {{発音表記}} で示す To transcribe/show the pronunciation of a word in {{phonetic symbols}}.

    So if 表記 appears as the heading of a section on loanwords, I think I would translate it as "phonetic transcription" or something similar.
  • Roro,

    that's actually useful, since I was reading part of my dictionary last night and wondering what those markers with 「表記」 meant, since I couldn't match it up with some of my translations.

    Got to love that Daijirin and Meikyou, for example, describe 表記 as: おもてに書きしるすこと。 (Which can also be written: 表に書き記すこと。) Did make it clearer though.
  • Glad I could help.

    表に書き記すこと

    I like that - a full sentence which includes both of the kanji and thus demonstrates how the compound works. I don't know how common such constructions are in textbooks, but I think they could be a useful learning aid. It reminds me of the 4-kanji proverbs.
  • Yeah, I like it too. I've learnt so much more by simply reading dictionaries for every single entry I encounter. Of course, it's sometimes a long road, but you build up a lot of knowledge at the same time. (And my grammar books are really helping!)

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