Question about the use of つもり
  • I came across the grammatical use of 'tsumori' in my wonderful japanese grammar book :) to say 'to intend' and a question came to my mind.
    The book states
    'verb+tsumori da/desu' = 'to have the intention to + verb'
    'verb+tsumori wa nai (arimasen)' = 'to not have the intention to + verb'
    You can use 'tsumori de wa nakatta' instead of 'tsumori wa nakatta' but you can't use 'tsumori de wa nai'
    Is there a grammatical explanation or is it just that people don't use it or it sounds weird or something else?

    ps: sorry I used romaji but I was to lazy to use japanese lol
  • I had not heard of a restriction against using tsumori de wa nai before. I'm pretty sure I've heard Japanese people say it even, but a vague memory like that is not reliable.

    When was the book printed originally (and whatever update you have)? It could be a small grammatical thing that isn't necessarily upheld.
  • The book is 'Manuel de Japonais' (yeah it's in French :) ) by Kunio Kuwae. It's a 4th edition from 2010 but the first one is from 1979 so idk if this particular point has been updated since. It's a pretty big book, mainly about japanese grammar, usually very detailed and well explained but this point is not.
    There's a second volume though so maybe it's in there but since it's a pretty rare book and pretty expensive too I haven't gotten it yet.

    It won't keep me from going ahead with the rest of the book but I was curious to know if there was some explanation about not using this form.
  • It is not used often. Just search つもりではない in Google. It will shoot thousands of results with つもりはない instead of what you had written.
  • Lol true but I could google a sentence full of errors in French and still find over a hundred matching results. Even I have to sometimes correct my own sentences 3 or 4 times before there are no faults lol :D .
  • That's a good idea!

    With Google (U.S.)
    "積もりではない" I got ~60,000
    "積もりじゃない" (contracted form of ではない) I got ~43,100
    "積もりはない" I got ~304,000

    Without Kanji use:
    "つもりではない" I got ~4,630,000
    "つもりじゃない" (contracted form of ではない) I got ~9,180,000
    "つもりはない" I got ~59,700,000

    With Google (JP)
    "積もりではない" ~60,100
    "積もりじゃない" ~43,600
    "積もりはない" ~304,000

    "つもりではない" ~5,940,000
    "つもりじゃない" ~9,180,000
    "つもりはない" ~78,100,000

    Interestingly, it would also appear that kana usage is more prevalent on the Internet than kanji for this word.

    So seems it's something to try to avoid yourself, but if you slip up and say ではない I'd imagine everyone would still know what you were saying.
  • I guess so too. Jisho writes it's also usually written in kana alone so Jisho seems to be right lol.
    After reading again the part about つもりはない it doesn't say you can't use it but more precisely that it is not used/employed. Since there doesn't seem to exist a grammatical explanation about it, I'll leave it to the 'People just don't use it' explanation lol.
    But thanks a lot for your insight everyone.

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