Is it just me, or are some of the kanji stroke orders on this site wrong?
  • http://jisho.org/kanji/details/令

    It's kind of weird... Every time I type the kanji into this site, it turns into something else, as with other kanji with the same radical. Does anybody else have this problem?
  • The handwritten and the printed form of this kanji are different.

    The one with マ at the bottom is the standard handwritten form. 令 is the standard printed form.
  • I'm so confused...

    Maybe I'll consult a Japanese expert on this for confirmation.
  • Occasionally there are kanji with incorrect stroke order, which Kim has always been quite prompt in correcting.

    As for what Richard said about that particular kanji, that's about all there is to it. :)
  • I think it's probably got the most blatantly different form, but it's not unique. 心, 人, and 入 are all slightly different in their written and printed forms. Also き and さ are slightly different. Maybe there are more examples out there.
  • In terms of stroke order, there are plenty of examples where there are differing stroke orders (some are "Chinese" vs "Japanese" stroke orders, but I think not all). There are cases where the stroke order is different for 行書.

    If you want a Japanese expert, here is an associate professor from Hiroshima University arguing against rote memorisation of "correct" stroke order (or rather, the idea that there can only be a single correct stroke order).
    いわゆる「正しい筆順」の幻想
    http://home.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/forum/29-2/hitujyun.html
  • Yep. To be honest, when they're not blown up to a large size it's hard to tell the difference for things like that.

    Yamasa does a handwritten example also so you can see:
    http://www.yamasa.cc/members/ocjs/kanjidic.nsf/SortedByKanji2THEnglish/備?OpenDocument
  • Good catch with this one http://jisho.org/kanji/details/備

    Really odd.
  • How is it odd? It's a very small difference and really you probably wouldn't even notice it in practice. e.g. if you were reading it in the context of a word like 準備 or 備える. It's like learning to read different fonts:
    http://juicygarden.jp/products/fc/maveglass/img/font1.gif
    http://pc.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/special/20100728/1026513/?P=6
    ("JIS" in this article = the Japanese standards body: the variants shown either are or were at some point official standard forms of the kanji and the fonts shown are all fonts supplied with Windows or Microsoft Office)

    This is normally the part where I link to this:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/LowercaseA.svg/220px-LowercaseA.svg.png

    Or this which shows "blackletter" scripts including Fraktur which was commonly used in Germany right up to WWII:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gebrochene_Schriften.png

    Or any "Old English" type font:
    http://content.altfonts.com/img/D/R/Drawn-Old-English.png
    I'm not sure I'd recognise that "E" if I saw it out of context, but in context it's obvious.

    This is a Japanese ペン字 drill sheet, confirming the form shown in the stroke order section for the link above for 備 is "correct", in that it is a standard Japanese handwritten form.
    http://www.penji-mikata.com/pdf/kanji/5/5_4.pdf
    (second row, ninth across)

    If you are going to look at stroke orders, they should be for the handwritten forms and I guess the ones taught in Japanese school would be best, but if you learn the Chinese stroke order for a character it's not the end of the world.

    If you want confirmation from material aimed at native speakers, Google things like:
    漢字 書き順 プリント
    ペン字  手本

    If you want information about kanji variants:
    異体字
  • In that regard, one might as well write 何 by connecting the 3rd and last strokes as in 伺. It's a small and almost unnoticeable difference.
  • Connecting two strokes which aren't normally consecutive wouldn't normally happen. If someone did do it, though, the result would still be understandable. Connecting multiple strokes does happen when they're consecutive - e.g. 略字

    I'm not saying to ignore stroke order entirely, just that you can have multiple kanji form and multiple stroke orders, so just because two sources disagree doesn't mean there's a right and a wrong one.

    http://www.taishukan.co.jp/kanji/qa03.html
    see answer to Q0103, which is from a teacher who often hears from parents that the stroke order their children are being taught is different from what they learned when they were in school.
    It says that in 筆順指導の手びき only the original 教育漢字 (881) were given official stroke orders. It goes on:
    この書物では、「特に注意すべき事項」として、「広く用いられる筆順が、2つ以上あるもの」を挙げています。たとえば「上」「止」などの「卜」の部分、「発」「登」の「癶」の部分、「祭」の「又」の部分、「必」などです。こういった漢字の筆順については、あるいは先生によって、教え方が違うことがあったかもしれません。

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